And I said, Okay, that sounds really good. And then it started, because I’m saying, Okay, fine, I’ll take care of it. It’s four o’clock in the morning, I’m just going to go back to sleep. And the universe says, Uh, no, you’re not. You’re going to sit down. As a matter of fact, you’re going to write the full intro. You’re going to write the first full promo, and it’s going to be a few minutes long. And I said, Alright, fine. So I got up at four o’clock in the morning, wrote it all out, and I started doing podcasts. I joined a group that both of us are involved in, and they directed me to Krystal. I asked Krystal to be a guest on my program toward a better life. And Wow, we hit it off and we just have so much in common. We have so many cool things to talk about.  

I went through the same thing with Krystal when she first came on my podcast saying, Okay, so when do we really start the podcast? And we had probably, I don’t know, know, 20, 30 minutes  on the phone before we actually started. So I appreciate Krystal’s insights into helping people, helping people where they are, helping people to help themselves, and learning that life really can be a truly enjoyable experience if you look at it that way. And if you choose to look at it from a negative perspective, guess what you’re going to get. And I said, You know, we have so many different things in common that we can do with that so this is cool. This is awesome. 

Krystal Jakosky:    I love you and I want to put you in my pocket and just carry you around with me. Thank you for the boost. One of the things that Kevin and I have the opportunity to really connect with and is dear to my heart is actually the native path. And so today, in the interest of bringing more awareness and more understanding about possibilities and different healing modalities that you guys can dive into, finding your peace, finding your direction, finding your life, I really wanted Kevin to come on and talk about his journey with that native path so that you guys can understand a little bit more, because some of us are really drawn to it. I can tell you that any time I hear those drums, I am bouncing and walking around right along with it, because there is something that speaks to my heart and soul, and it brings me joy to be in that area. So Kevin, what drew you to the native path? Tell me about a little bit of your background and what brought you to that new place?  

Kevin Pennell:    I became really curious about how the indigenous people worked in close harmony with the world around them. They saw the trees as their brothers. You see the animals as their brothers and sisters. They would call the trees, not trees, but they called the brothers, called them the tall ones. Would call the stones, the rocks, grandmothers and grandfathers. They would go into a sweat lodge or they’d call them the stone people because they were the wisest people, because these stone people have been around for thousands of years. And the only way that we have to communicate is if you’re really in tune with stuff. You’re walking a long garden past some place, maybe out in Colorado or Texas or Minneapolis or wherever you might be in this little stone. You’re just drawn to it and you say, I got nothing, but it looks cute, so I’ll pick it up.  

And you, and if you actually tried to tell that person, you do know that that stone just talked to you, Right? They’d say, Yeah, Right. What planet did you just fall off of? But I was always intrigued by the natural world, and I’ve always been intrigued by all the beauty of the natural world. And then I found myself just getting interested in that. And I started to say, Well, I wonder if I have any native blood in me. And I said, Well, you know, and at the time I was living in Broward County down in Florida, and we had a pretty big library. The library in Broward County was huge. And they actually had an archive section, and you could go in, believe it or not, Krystal, you could go into there and you can look up the original manifests from the original Mayflower.

Obviously they’re micro-fish, but it was amazing. We’re talking about handwriting Okay. That they had preserved from some place. And I’m going to just casually conclude the other, you know, and the curiosity part comes in. Oh, I wonder if Pinnell is in the right place. Yeah. 1637, third Mayflower, there’s a Pinal. I went, Oh my gosh. My family’s been here since 1637. And I know my dad had told me that, you know, the other crew came in from Wales, around sometime  in the mid to early 1700s, because our ancestors fought in the Revolutionary War. So, geez, you know, common sense will tell you, I’ve got to have native blood in me. Right. I’ve been around here for three to 400 years. It’s got to be native blood in me. Right? So I started that path and I started chumming around with different folks, and I was really drawn to a couple of folks.  

One of those people as a person, I wrote about. The book is Two Feather Spiritual Seed Planter, and it’s written by Kevin Laughing Hawk, which is my spirit name that he gave me. But when Kenny and I first met, and this is shown in the book, when Kenny and I first met, I went into that guy, and I’m just talking with him because I was curious, and at the time I was doing news for local a radio station, and I said, You know, I wonder, I’m not really into the idea of interviewing this guy for a program, but I did see him identified in a local newspaper, The Gainesville Sun, I think it was. I sat down and I talked with him, and I just said, You know, you’re an interesting man and I would really like to share a little bit more with you.  

He said, Sure, by all means, what questions do you have? And that short little time ended up being two and a half hours, difficult to do with you. Well, if you knew two feathers, you’d see that we’re on the verge of destruction here for taking up time. Oh, wow. Both of us just went on and on and on. And one of the most significant things that he said to me, he looked at me and he said, I do have a question for you, Kevin. I said, What’s that? He says, Do you know who you are? And I said, Well, sure. I know exactly who I am. I’m Kevin Pennell,  I’ve been a pi, I’ve been a cop. I was in radio, I’m in radio now, and you know, I’ve done this, I’ve done that. I’ve done, No, no, no, no, no, no, no. Do you know who you are? And I said, I, I don’t. He says, We’ll go to that later. And he told me also, You know so you write news stories? I said, Yeah. He says, You know, maybe someday you ought to write a book about me or write a book about us. And I went, Oh, yeah. Right. Yeah. Like, I’m going to do that. 10 years later I did.

But, you know, so that’s the process. I was, you know, Kenny and I got together and I looked at him as my, my good friend, my brother, my teacher, my mentor. We are convinced that we were related in a past life, and we’ve got proof in our hearts and our spirits that that’s very, very true. And if I had a picture of him someplace, I would try to pull it up here to show you, because particularly in the cover of my book, and if you go to Amazon, you can see it. And people would look at that picture and they’d say, Well, it’s about Ken two feathers. Why did you put your picture on the cover?  

And I didn’t. That’s Kenny, that’s how close we looked like each other. And when I was living up in Maine I’d be on the street walking along and somebody’d holler across the street, and this is a little village up there called Bethel. He would holler across the street, and they would say, Kenny. Kenny. And I’m looking around Flood, trying to find Kenny. I can’t see Kenny anywhere,  I turned around and then said, Oh, wait a minute. You’re not Kenny  

They were talking to me. Things for a compliment. Yeah. Thanks for the compliment. I really appreciate that. Nice thoughts. But Kenny taught me so much about this stuff, and I was still convinced that I was Native American. You know, after all, I’ve been here for 300 and something years. My family’s been here that long. I mean, my gosh, I’ve got to be Native American, Nope. Few years ago, Vicky, who’s my partner, got me one of these DNA test things, and I found out that I am Scott Welsh, Irish, and a little bit of German. And here’s the cool part that I didn’t expect. I’m also a Viking.

That answered a lot of questions for me, because if you go into some of the history of the Carolinas and some of the Virginias, you’ll find out that a lot of the intermarriages that took place a couple of hundred years ago with the Cherokee people, and it looks like they would intermarry with Celtics. If you start looking at the Celtic traditions, and you look at them in comparison to Native American ways, both of them honor the earth, both of them look at the spirits of the world, the spirits of the animals, the spirits of the earth, the spirits of everything. And that’s enough common ground to cause a beautiful relationship between people. So instead of turning my back on it saying, Well, you know, I’m not Native American, I’m a human being.  

And that’s what Kenny would tell you. He says, there is no such thing as a Native American, an indigenous person, this, that, the other, we’re all human beings. And that is the essence of it, is to become a human being and a true human being as someone who not only honors the earth, but they honor people and they honor others’ ways. And that continued the journey. But it wasn’t until about a year or so before Kenny crossed over that I came to the realization that, Nope, I’m Scott Welsh and Irish mostly. And I’m okay with that. But in the midst of all of that, what I learned over a period of 15, 20 years of exposure to some of the indigenous people, particularly northeastern woodlands, Kenny was a penobscot and Sarney. You have Pinco, Mick Mack, Ma,  Paqua, you know, all that group that’s up there in Maine and New England. And I sat under his tutelage and learned a great deal about sweat lodges, about getting, giving a name about the significance of having a spirit named significance of the sacred pie, significance of the giveaway. All those beautiful stories and how I made them a part of me. And in sharing that book, I encouraged other people to do this as well, from a standpoint of not becoming a Native American, but to become a better human being. So there’s the short version.

Krystal Jakosky:   The question of, do you know who you are? Is a terrifying question, I think, for a lot of us. I mean, on the one hand, absolutely, I’m so and so, and this is what I do, but do you really know who you are? And to be sitting, you were drawn to indigenous people, you were drawn to the Native American ways. And to have this person sitting there asking you such a deep question You said, I’m Kevin Pennell, and I do this and this, and this and this, But inside, were you freaking out?  

Kevin Pennell:   Oh, yeah. 

Krystal Jakosky:    How did you move from, was it in just that one interview where you moved from where acquaintances and we’re checking each other out, and I wanted to know more about you that you automatically moved into, I want to take you under my wing. Or how did it change from just these two people meeting to, you need to learn more about who you are, and I want to teach you?

Kevin Pennell:   It was one step at a time. In the book I talk about asking for a teacher or looking for a teacher, and it was still a curiosity. And I’m a curious person. I’m a very curious person, underscore that several times. And curiosity can be a blessing, could also be a curse. In this instance, it was a blessing. And the curiosity continued that Kenny says, Oh, we’ve got a Native American gathering coming up. Next month they have what they used to call down around Dad city, They called it the full moon ceremony. And it was beautiful, and it was on the full moon. And you would, we would have all these different people come and, and it was intertribal and even those that were not native and yet called to it, and don’t let me forget, I want to go to that in a second. Their essence was drawing me toward a deeper understanding of these people that were so beautiful and so wonderful. And I said, You know, there’s got to be something here and I can’t quite figure it out. So I kept going back to Kenny and talking with him. This wasn’t just one conversation. And to answer your first question, I’m sorry, was, you know, did you at that point in time realize that you were the student and he was the teacher? The answer is no. The universe knew it.  

Universe knew, it’s taken us this long to get you two guys together crying out loud. You have no idea what a pia this has been.

 And as we moved along, I started hearing about gifting tobacco and asking for a teacher. And really what that means to ask an indigenous person to be your teacher. Kenny taught me a lot as far as being very traditional in some of this stuff, and I’m not dissing anyone for any of this, but, there were people that if you wanted a teacher, then you not only gifted tobacco, but you gifted money. And if you wanted a sweat, you gifted money. It just goes on and on and on. And I’m not I’m not dissing anyone because that’s just their path. But the way that I was taught is, if I want a teacher, I gift them tobacco. If I want a sweat lodge, I gift them tobacco. If I want them to awaken a spirit pipe for me, I gift them tobacco. Why tobacco?  

It’s bad for you. No. What it is, is, is it actually, the smoke is lifted with our spirit thoughts in the smoke to creator to the universe, to the ancestors around us, because that’s how the prayers are lifted. That’s why so often tobacco is looked at as a sacred herb, because its essence, the smoke as it’s burned, lifts our prayers and our intentions to the universe around us and the ancestors. So you would gift tobacco. And after a month, I’d say, I realized I really do want to know more about this. And I ended up gifting Kenny Tobacco and asking him to be my teacher. Part of that entailed, when you asked someone to be your teacher, you are like, I still use the term today. You’ve opened the door. You’ve opened the door to what you’ve opened to allow that person to share with you what they find to be the most benefit for you to be a better human being.  

And guess what? Some of those things they tell you, if you’re a good teacher, you may not and you probably won’t like. Because they tell you stuff that is better for you as a person. And I’m not going to sit here and tell you that it was all actually roses. As roses have thorns, Kenny upset me enough a couple of times that I wanted to punch him. I’m not kidding at all. It just irritated the crap out of me. And he had me, I’m gonna steal your term. He had me own my shit. And I really didn’t want to own my shit because it’s my shit. It’s not somebody else’s. And it’s so easy to say, that’s your fault. You just don’t want to admit to it because it’s your perception. Yeah. So after a while, I became his student, he was my mentor. So he was my student, I was his student, I was his man, he was my mentor. I’ll slip on that because the interesting thing is, when you get in deep enough with somebody, the roles do reverse. You establish a beautiful relationship that is beyond words.  

And as he would say, I’m not sure about our timeframe here, but if you can do this while we’re talking, I’m going to find something since it is going to be shown on YouTube, there’s a beautiful little story if I’m allowed to do this. Okay. 

Krystal Jakosky:    Yeah. This is your podcast. Well, it’s my podcast. You are my guest. You can get to do what you want. 

Kevin Pennell:    If I can do this in a camera. Okay. So I’ve got, There we go. I’ve got three dots here, right? Yeah. Okay, So now I’m going to take this, I’m going to draw a couple of lines here, and here it is again. 

Krystal Jakosky:    Further back, hold it further back so we can see it better. There we go. Okay.  

Kevin Pennell    So when we’re here, this is you and I talking to you, Krystal. Okay. Yeah. But the relationship that we’re forming also forms another relationship.  

This is our higher selves communicating and they’re communicating in terminology. We cannot identify, we cannot communicate because we don’t know, we don’t understand that language. So in a higher form, you and I are communicating. And that’s how Kenny and I were, and that’s how all relationships are. If you really look at it, and it’s when we have these types of relationships that people should understand that. I don’t want to go down this road because it’s a whole nother podcast. But if you are in a situation where you need to end a relationship, this needs to finish or not finish, but you’d redefine it.  

Because you’ve had that communication at that level. And so you have to figure out a way to make it real, to make it a good thing. And one of the things that we’ve used, I know some people think about affirmations, and I got an affirmation years ago, and this was not native, it was not indigenous, but it came from a spiritualist that I met down in Florida. He was an elder in a group down there. And the words go, you put a name or an object in the beginning of this affirmation, you’d say, Jack, I now release you to your good. The good of one is the good of all. Now keep those three little things in mind that I just showed you because Jack and I have had a relationship. But now we need to shift that relationship. So the I that I is the divine side of me, the higher self that I now release you to your good, I now release you to your higher self.  

I now release you to the good intentions that you have. The ultimate result of that is in doing so, you help everyone and yourself included, because the good of one is the good of all. And that’s how you do stuff. If we realize that it really helps our relationships a lot more, so you can see where I can, we can really go to town on that. So that information was shared with me in that it’s so important that we really do get the picture of what it’s like to have a relationship with someone and to be integrated with that person because we are not just linear, but the whole picture. Yeah. So we’re embraced together in that whole thing.   

Krystal Jakosky:    There’s a ton in there. And I was trying to quietly and discreetly take some notes because there are so many things that I want to jump back to. I do the same thing. So, I love the illustration when I am working with a client or when I am being taught with somebody. I have, I have for a long time, 20 years, been very aware of my higher self. And there have been plenty of times that my higher self has been talking with the other person’s higher self. Then I understand. So it helps me to see their perspective. It helps me to see their point of view, why they feel a certain way. When I’m working with a client, I make sure that the conversation between my higher self and myself is very clear. So that if there is information that I need to give to my client while I’m teaching them how to listen to their higher self, it’s a very sacred and beautiful connection that you can build and you can really honor like yourself with your higher self and understanding and trusting the information that you get from them.  

And as a teacher and a student connection, it’s even more sacred and special because of the added depth of the relationship that can happen because of the fact that you’re willing to spiritually connect together. My husband has this phrase, he says, the student becomes the master. And I think that goes to your comment that, that it does, we shift for a little while. We become, we are the teacher or we are the student. And after a little while, we are going to shift and we will be the other, we will be the student or the teacher on some level in some manner. And it’s a beautiful give and take because we’re all human and we all have experiences that we can share to help change lives in beautiful, gentle, and not so gentle ways. Some of the best lessons that I have learned are the ones where I just kind of want to flip the finger and say, Screw you, I don’t want to talk to you anymore.  

Kevin Pennell:    And then I have had those clients who they don’t talk to me for a week or two because what I ask them, what I am inspired to ask them from my eye or power saying, Hey, you need, you need a bigger nudge than what you’re willing to accept right now. So I’m going to say this. And it really upsets them. It’s really infuriating. And yet they always come back and say, thank you.  

I needed that. I wasn’t willing to accept that. And the way that you did that was so fabulous. It hurts like hell. It pisses us off. And yet those moments, as long as we’re still saying yes, and, and I’m going to choose into this, then we’ll see what happens and where it goes. And I’m really grateful for you, that Kenny was able to push your buttons.

Krystal Jakosky:    Am I? You have no idea. He, he came in, I’ll go ahead. No, you’re good. No, no, no. Please. You had a question. I want to because I will ramble forever.  

Kevin Pennell:    No, I was, what I was going to say was actually to the audience and the fact that oftentimes those people who are so challenging have the biggest lessons. They have the biggest opportunity for shifting, for growth. If we step back, take a moment and ask, Okay, what am I supposed to learn? What am I being shown? How can I deal with this? Instead of shutting down and putting that wall there and a million locks and everything else to push that person out of our lives, maybe we step back and say, Okay, how can I learn and how can I grow and how can life be better because of this really frustrating moment that I am experiencing? So friction is good.  

Krystal Jakosky:    It is something, somebody ought to come up with a line like breathe in and breathe out. 

Kevin Pennell:    Right. Thank you.  

So a little while back, I want to bring us back to this because I wanted to come back and you mentioned that you wanted to come back. The whole concept of you thought for sure that you had Native American blood in you, that you were somehow related to that. And then you go in with Kenny two feathers and you’re learning from him. And you said you wanted to return to this concept of the fact that you actually don’t have, and yet you were learning from.  

So in some work that I had done on my own and thankfulness to others, for what it’s worth my background, degree is in theology. And I did a flip some years ago and I will not, again, I’m not going to put anybody down because they go to church because that is the level of spirituality. That’s the way you achieve your level of spirituality that  you feel that you’re growing from and that you’re getting a lot of benefit from. And that’s fine. It’s just not who I am anymore. It was part of my process. I don’t regret any of that. But all that being said, I’m leading into something. And that is that I strongly believe in reincarnation Now, I believe in it so strongly that I can tell you that there were incidents in my life where dreams that used to come to me after I had made a shift and I had made a change that was needed in my life, Guess what happened to those dreams? They stopped because I made the change that was necessary. And I realized after I had had this one, I had one dream that was, it was to the point,  it would actually become nightmarish and it would wake me up. And it was scary. I’m sure people have had these kind of dreams where you would have a dream where you either you want to punch somebody and for whatever reason, everything goes into slow motion and you can’t quite get your fist into it where you need to go stops  

Yeah. Or you have the other situation, which was this one that I had a spear in my hand and I was native. I was a pueblo and I had my spear and we were being invaded and I knew that I had to do something and I just kept trying to move forward with this. And it’s, I’m going to kill you. I’m going to do this. And nothing will ever happen with that. I had a past life regression done by a colleague of mine and came to realize the reason why I had such a hard time with that is because that’s not what happened. Oh. I was a spiritual leader of that group, and I had taken the vow to be a peacemaker, and that meant that I didn’t raise arms against anybody.  

And the truth came out that I watched my family get killed. Wow. And that was tough. And after I realized what was involved with that, I saw for the first time in that juncture, a real essence of what I was in that life. Not only had it been that, but I also found that there were some roots in the Kwa Nation. And because I was, I talked with somebody one time and we were just having a great time, just like you and I are having a great time right now. And we started singing some wonderful songs and some of the songs that just came from the heart just came from Spirit. I’m just going at it. And the lady that I was with at the time, she says she just held her hand up and she was black feet and Polish.  

That’s a good combination. She said, You need to stop right there. And I said, Why? What? You know, what did I do? And I’m still, this is like three or four years into my, two or three years into my path on some of this indigenous people path. What did I do? Did I offend you? And she, No,  have you been around K people? And I said, No, I’ve never been around Kwa people. Where are they? And she says, Well, you know, up Midwest. And I said, Okay. So what? She says, Well, you’re singing in the K language. I got nothing. And again, I did some more work. And I’m, I’m comfortable with that, that Kwa. And some people say, Oh, you’re just one of those frilly, fufu people that just believes in anything and everything.  

But what I’ve got also down deep inside of me is a real sense. And it was brought into full light when I saw, and I heard from Kenny, but I heard about a story that was given down, I believe by the Hopi, and I can be wrong, but something about that there are so many souls who are out there from the 500 nations that occupied North America. There are not enough bodies for the souls that have crossed over. And so some of those souls went into the people of today, the white people, and those that have the hearts and the minds ready for this sort of thing.  Okay, I can accept that or not, all I know is this. I’m going to move along with the way that time feels. I’m the most comfortable. And so, I will talk about, you need to be very wary of being too comfortable because you know, you can get so comfortable that you no longer grow. But comfort in this act, I would say not comfortable, but content with the concept that I’m confident that I’ve been in native in the past. And that’s why one of the reasons I gravitated back to this is because I see the connection between my true heritage of the Celtic people and the inherited or reincarnated heritage of my native side. So yeah, it’s beautiful. It’s powerful stuff.  

I’m searching for the right words at the moment because there are a ton of thoughts and ideas going through my brain right now. And I want to say these words in the most respectful and honoring way that I can. We are drawn to different things. We are drawn to different ways of life. And it is all an opportunity to learn and grow. It is all an opportunity to find compassion and expansion with understanding a different culture, a different way of living, a different state of being. And this is, and I would like to mention that not by way of just Native American and indigenous pupils. I’m talking about people who live differently than us. Maybe it’s someone who chooses religion and the structure that that gives them over spirituality. Perhaps it’s someone who has a different societal belief, right? Whether you’re Republican or Democrat or all those things.  

Perhaps it’s someone who is lgbtq plus versus someone who is not unaware of it. Somebody who is deaf and in that community and culture and somebody who is not and is trying to learn how to respect and honor the different cultures and ways of living around us. And I think that by learning about it, inviting that in from a very respectful and honoring space, we learn so much more. And just like you are the student, you may also become the teacher and help people recognize that you’re not out to get them and that you are more balanced and that things are okay and whatnot. I think there’s this huge opportunity for all of us to come together in this compassionate, gentle space. If you are drawn to the beliefs and the feelings and the teachings and the culture of indigenous people, I encourage you to dive in.  

I encourage you to respectfully dip your toes and send out to the universe and say, Hey, can you send me a teacher and help me meet the people that I need to meet so that I can start walking on that path? Because the only way you will find that person is if you do open up. Kevin and I were talking about the concept right now. Kevin’s very much in this. Yes. And what else can I do? And if you say, yes, I would like that teacher, and what else can I learn? How many things shift? 

You bet it does. Just be ready for the ride. I think when you are working with someone within the native community, as an outsider, I would say this, I felt truly honored when I was living out in the southwest living, living in Arizona. And I found the sweat lodge to be so beneficial for me as a person. And it really did a lot for my heart, my spirit, my soul, and what a wonderful group of people they were that were there. It was on the Pima Reservation. And if you’re familiar with Phoenix, that’s pretty much really close within the city limits of Phoenix. But they were Pima, there were Pima and there were Navajo. That was pretty much it. Those two people, excuse me, there was Apache, there were Apaches there too.  

And the sweat lodges that I had been to up to that point were a big one for me was 10, 15 people. This sweat lodge alone was probably, I’m gonna guess it was, it was elliptical. So it was probably pretty close to somewhere between 16 and 20 feet long and probably a solid 12 to 14 feet wide, big sweat lodge. Wow. And I thought a big sweat lodge that we would have had a really heavy duty sweat lodge had 12 to 15 stones. No, we had somewhere between 48 and 52 stones in that sweat lodge. And everyone in there, you could just feel the spirit in there. And I faithfully went there for my own sake. I mean, because I needed that in my life at that time. I had drifted a little bit. I’m still on the path and still doing it, but I’m still being pulled into other stuff and we can maybe go into that later or go into another podcast. But we all will drift from time to time off of our given path. And sometimes it’s done for different reasons, but in this one, I felt really good that it gave me that grounding that I needed.  

And literally out of the proverbial blue, the leader came to me and parenthetically the leader and his wife actually helped young men and women on the PMA reservation with substance abuse. And they used the sweat lodge as a vehicle to help them overcome substance abuse. So it was pretty powerful. Yeah. He came up to me after I’d been there for some months, he put his hand on my shoulder and he said, Can I speak with you for a minute brother? And I said, Sure, what’s up? He says, You know, we have another sweat lodge. I said, Yeah, I, you know, coming next Tuesday, Wednesday, whatever it was, he says, No, no, no. He says, We have a family swat lodge every Sunday and I’d like you to start attending.  

Krystal Jakosky:    Oh wow.  

Kevin Pennelll:    That blew me away.  

Krystal Jakosky:    Literally invited you into the family.  

Kevin Pennell:    Yeah. And no ceremony. It just was what it was. And I also had the opportunity, one of the Apaches in the group came up, put their hand on my shoulder one day and then said, we have a very special thing. And we’d like, and this is after I had been invited to go to the Sunday sweats, because it was at one of those Sunday sweats that he came to me. And let’s face it guys, I don’t look native  

And he puts his hand on my shoulder and he says, Are you familiar with a very special Apache dance where a young woman is ushered into a young lady and is ushered into womanhood? And I said, Yeah, I’m a little familiar with that. He says, Well, we have a young lady who’s doing that. This, you know, whenever it is, he says, we’d be honored to have you. And this is the one where you would have the dancers, and the brain’s gone right now. Hopefully it’ll come back. Wink wink, nudge, nudge Krystal, maybe you can help me out here. But you have the special dolls that you can buy at gift shops and they’re the really cool looking dolls that you get. And they’re Hopi basically. Yeah, well the Apache have them too, just so you know. And  I went to that dance and they had the bonafide ones. They didn’t have the tourist ones because you can go to either one of those dances in Arizona and this one you were stopped on the road when you were coming in saying, who invited you?  

I told them and they said, Okay, you can come in.  

Krystal Jakosky:    Okay, fine. We’ll admit you. What I want to know, and I want my listeners to know, what is the purpose or the intention behind the sweat lodges?  

Kevin Pennell:    Good question. There’s a chapter in the book about that.

Sweat lodge. I attended the sweat lodge basically to– how do I start with this? Sweat lodge is an opportunity for us to bear ourselves to the universe and to cleanse ourselves from whatever is holding spirit back. Black Elk and his nephew, Frank FOLs Crow also had the same thing. And that is that with sweat lodges, you are given the opportunity to bury your soul and to go down deep inside and reveal to you what you need to change. Fools Crow talked about being a hollow bone and there’s a workshop that I’ve done before called Becoming a Hollow Bone. And interestingly enough, to me it’s also one of those central truths like love because the Dalai Lama talks about becoming, believe it or not, he uses the term becoming a hollow tube. But the hollow bone is just simply this.  

That you get rid of the stuff that’s inside that bone to allow more spirit to come through that’s unobstructed. And to give the analogy, they give the example of a plumbing pipe that if it gets clogged, the water can’t get through and you have to unplug it. And so the Sweat lodge is one of the vehicles that can be used to help rid ourselves of the stuff that’s within our being, within our bones that will help spirit to come through better. That’s one of the parts. But in most cases it’s  an opportunity to be cleansing and beautiful. That’s what’s done. And that’s another piece that I was taught if you want to have a sweat lodge. I was honored in being able to be taught how to do a sweat lodge and I’ve poured a few sweat lodges.  

The way that I would do a sweat lodge was somebody would come up to me, and this is how Kenny taught me and others chimed in with the same thing, is that you come up to me, you give me tobacco, and you give me a reason why. And I’m not trying to be a jerk, but if somebody comes up to me and says, Oh, I want to have a sweat lodge because I want to know what it’s like. No, why do you want it? It’s like the same question, Do you know who you are?

If you give me a good reason or if you give that elder a good reason and tobacco, there’s your way. And typically what I did was somebody would give tobacco or somebody would give Kenny tobacco and he’d say, Give me a few days to talk with the spirits. And that’s what you do. And my thing was, he taught me if I wait three times to come back through. And the third time it affirms that. In fact, if the third time doesn’t come at a certain length of time, then it ain’t going to happen. It’s just not meant to be. It doesn’t mean that you can’t have a sweat, it just means that I’m not supposed to be the one to do it. Or maybe you’re not supposed to have one. So there’s no money exchanged, it’s just your gift of tobacco. That’s the way I was taught. And you typically break bread afterward too. There’s a lot more to it than that. Does that answer the question?  

Krystal Jakosky:    No, it’s a fantastic answer and I very much appreciate it because it literally brings everything back to intention and spirituality and being connected with source, being connected with the universe, being connected with spirit, whatever that phrase is that works for you. So Native Americans, indigenous people, some people are going to do sweat lodges, and that is how they connect with that spirit. And other people are going to go to organized religion. That is where they have that connection with that higher power that brings them the peace and joy that they need. It all works for everyone depending on where you’re at and what you are seeking and what fills your heart and gives you the answers that you need in that moment. And so I love the intention behind it. I love the purpose behind it. It’s I am seeking, or I would like to connect or I need this, and because I need that, I am going to seek for answers. I’m going to seek healing. I am going to find somebody who can help me move forward and be better in my life than I already am right now. So thank you for that answer. Thank you for sharing.

Kevin Pennell:   Part of it is, the magic word that you used is something I used with students when I teach not only workshops, but  when I teach in massage school and when I teach whatever, intention is key. Intention is critical. So it doesn’t matter what you’re doing, you need to look at the reason behind it. Yeah. And you need to really say, Am I doing this for the right reasons? What’s my intention? What am I really engulfing in this? What am I really putting into this? What kind of energy am I putting into this? Yeah. And if you’re working with someone, side note massage therapy is, is if you don’t have the intention when you’re talking with somebody, or excuse me, when you’re working with someone and you’re doing the massage with someone, you’re doing the body work with someone, any of the stuff that we’re talking about, even if you’re doing counseling or if you’re doing anything like that, and if your mind is not totally focused with good intention with that person, don’t think for a second that they won’t feel it.  

You don’t have to say it. Words don’t have to express what’s really going on. And if we’re human, we’re going to do this, but if my brain is on, well, geez, I wish this interview would get done because I’ve got other things to do. If I let that intention come out in that, going back to the little three globes I had, and if your higher self picks up on that, guess what? You say, Okay, that’s good. See ya. And I never hear from you again. But it’s the side. The other side of that is if you’re a body worker and you are totally committed to this person and you’re not thinking about your rent, you’re not thinking about, Oh geez, this is this person again. And you’re not thinking about, Oh, what am I going to do this weekend?  

And if you’re not, you know, all the little thought monkeys coming in and if you’re not sidetracked by all that, guess what? They know it. They know when you are connected to them. And then the magic really happens because they say, Wow, I don’t know what this is that you’ve just done with me as far as a massage is concerned, or whatever the case may be, but it’s the most fantastic, most beautiful, most awesome experience. And I will come back and you say, Okay, great. And I will, It’s just magical when you do that because people want that. I was talking earlier today with someone and they said, You know what people are starving for right now. I mean, we’re doing this on a podcast, we’re doing this on YouTube, but they really miss being together. Actually touching each other. And it’s that communication that is so important. But anyway, ramble on intention next.

Krystal Jakosky:    No, you’re good. I’ve also noticed for me personally, I have done ti massage, meaning I am a trained ti massage therapist. And so I have often found that when I am in it, and this goes for, I mean, you brought out massage therapy, but I think that this goes for almost any action that we’re doing. If you focus on the action that you’re doing and you are really in it, I am cutting these vegetables and I’m getting the same size. I’m sanding wood, I’m chopping wood, I’m working on a client. If you focus on that and let everything else go, it actually becomes a meditation. One of my favorite things was to be working and losing my mind in what I was doing and having that intentionality and the fluidity because I was just present in that moment. And that presence is what brought me peace, is what brought me more energy to continue with the rest of my day. And so intention, the presence and things are completely different. So Kevin, what are you doing now? 

Kevin Pennell:    I’m talking with you. You ask, I mean.

Krystal Jakosky:    Like these days, I mean you and I could shop talk forever, you guys, I’m telling you Kevin and I could do a year’s worth of podcast and probably not touch on the same subject twice. And that’s fantastic to find such a gift like that. So I sincerely thank you for having me on your A Better Life podcast. And then I really thank you for being here because I really wanted to talk about the native way of life and their love for the earth and their connection to the world around us, because I think it is so absolutely beautiful. I feel that draw and it is one of those things that speaks peace and joy to my heart with all of the other things that we have talked about, but not necessarily on this podcast. What else are you into these days? Like what else are you doing in life?  

Kevin Pennell:    Well, I do have to share one other little thought with Native American stuff. It just came to me and I would just want to honor that, that if you are a person listening to this, watching this, and if you’re being drawn in that direction, be you white or be you native. And if you are drawn in that direction and you start to seek out someone, know this, that eventually, if you’re doing it for the right reasons, with the right intentions, it goes back to the old saying, when the student is ready, the teacher will appear. But at the same token, when you find that teacher or where you find that person, you don’t just run right out and give them tobacco right on the spot. No, just take your time, go slow. Take it to somebody who has been there. Oh dear. You know, I want everything and I want it right now. Because that’s the way you do stuff, right? No, take your time. Be patient would be one key word. Another key word to keep in mind is love, trust, and thankfulness.  

Honor sharing, caring, giving, loving. That’s the ones that I’m trying to run in my brain. But that’s what we would say all the time to love, to share, to care, to give. We’re coming up on a season called, of course, Thanksgiving. And I have a podcast coming up that’s going to be on the Thanksgiving address. And if you have an opportunity to look up on Google or listen to the podcast, it doesn’t matter to me. It really doesn’t. What’s most important to me is that you look and find the Thanksgiving address. It was as it was delivered by the Iroquois people. Because it’s beautiful. When I did it the other day, I got emotional. It just really hit my heart when I would listen to my really good friend Mike Douglas giving that information to me. He was the main preventative skill school.  

Hope you don’t mind my sharing that. But, thankfulness is so important to be thankful for the air that we breathe. Be thankful for the life that we have. Be thankful that we are old because we could have died young. Be thankful for the simple little things. Be thankful for the person in your life. Be thankful for the people in your life. So what am I doing now? Well, I am enjoying doing podcasts. You’re talking about being focused on stuff. People really, my partner can’t believe it about how I can sit down with my audition software and I can spend hours editing. You can share that information with Avery. I can just go away. I mean, hours will go by and I’m just sitting here going on. 

Yeah. But I’m such a big picture person and yet at the same time I can be very detail oriented when I need to be. In Native traditions sometimes that’s referred to as mouse medicine. But anyway, so I do my podcast, I do some instruction, I do some workshops. I am a massage therapist who sees people here in Asheville, North Carolina, Wink, wink, nudge, nudge, I have  people ask, even if you’re a massage therapist and your listener watching this, and some people will ask me, Well, how many massages do you do a day? And I typically am going to do two to four, and that’s my happy place. Yeah. Could I do six? Yeah, I could, but I wouldn’t last. I’ve been doing body work of some level or another for about 22 years, and it can be done.  

So I do the massage, I do podcasting. I walk in nature. I love to get out and about. I just like being when I can. Through our other conversations, Krystal knows that we’re into cars a little bit. And I do have another podcast called the Driving Experience. I’m really into BMWs, and racing. I used to race, but I don’t race anymore. Just because, you know, I’m not going to say I won’t because I don’t know, but I just like to live an active life. We are currently living in a senior community while we wait for our house to be built. And we tried this for a while and, Krystal, we can’t do it. And I’m not putting anything down, but I, I cannot be that old person. 

Just can’t do that. Nope. Just can’t. You’re not ready. No. And, I don’t know that I ever will be.  There was a teacher who taught, she was actually responsible forTrigger Point Therapy, and her name was Janet Trave. And Janet continued her work as a massage therapist and, and doctor up until about three to four months before she died at the ripe old age of 96. Oh, wow. I intend to beat her record. So I gotta go good. But just stay active. And if you’re older and if you’re a senior and you feel like, Oh man, I just know, just stop doing what you’re doing and go out for a walk in the woods, bathe in the woods.  

 And no, don’t take a tub with you for crying out loud. I’m talking about being one with the forest. But, you know, be active. Get around young people and, and just be and enjoy life because that’s what we’re here for. We’re here to learn. We’re here to be filled with joy. We’re here for contentment. And I mean, if you look at the Dalai Lama that still does live things on occasion, and I saw something the other day and I realized he’s pushing 90 years old. And you look at him and he’s still smiling and he’s still going around and he’s still happy and he’s not dejected, he’s not down. So yeah, let us see. What else do I do?  

I build things. I stay active and I let my brain stay active.

Krystal Jakosky:    In all of that activity, in all of the things that you’re doing and loving and enjoying, what is your favorite or most unique? 

Kevin Pennell:    Geez.  

Krystal Jakosky:    Activity for self care.  

Kevin Pennell:    Oh, good one. Yay. Wow. 

Krystal Jakosky:    I don’t know what you thought I was going to ask.  

Kevin Pennell:    You know, I didn’t. What’s your favorite one? Oh God. No.  

Krystal Jakosky:    No. What’s your favorite, what’s your favorite way to take care of yourself and rebuild, regenerate? Because you’re doing a lot. You’re out and you’re functioning. What do you do for you?  

Kevin Pennell:    I will answer this with a line that I’ve used for years. It’s four words, go with the flow. What I mean by that is, today I missed my run and I missed my walk. Because I’m doing two podcasts. One I did, and one I’m being done. What was that? 

So I could get all upset about that or I could look at this as an opportunity for me. Because that’s what this has been. Yeah. You know, I’m sharing with Krystal and this is me time, this is what I want to do. But the rest of that part is for self care, and I’ve taught, and I have a workshop that I do with this, but self care is one of the biggest things for self care is awareness.  

Krystal Jakosky:    Yeah.  

Kevin Pennell:    You know what’s missing? So I might fill that void with going out for a walk in the woods. I might fill that void with doing some Tai Chi and Chiang. I might start to do the ch style 48 and I might get through half of it and start saying, Oh, I’m good with this. Yeah. And you know, I want to go with the flow to what generates within me, the sense of being me and no one else. And if you look at that book that I wrote, one of the things that came up in that book was, I am a chameleon. True, true story. Or I have been where, because of my background, and this will really spin us off and I’m not gonna go there but because of the way I was brought up a long time in a residence or a place or a community was two years when I was growing up, two years mostly it was like 18 months on average.  

Wow. And we moved and it was no regrets, not upset, no problems. But it’s funny because what that taught me to do is how to connect with people like that. And I could make a connection. I could get that. But in order to do that, I had to be like them. Listen to that. I had to be like them, not like me, like them. Why? Because in the way that I thought, it made me more comfortable around them because I’m like them. But then is when I really got the message that Kenny was trying to ask me years and years and years before, Kevin, who do you think you are? Who are you? And I went, Wow. And that’s when the change really happened. And people say, Geez, would you do that again? I said, I would try to avoid it like the bubonic plague, but I don’t regret a bit of it because I had to go through that. I had to do that change. So back the to question, what do you do for self care? I listen to the still small voice in my heart. When I used to, when I’ve signed off on my books before, I would say something to the effect of, let your heart and spirit guide you because they’ll never let you down.  

Let your heart and your spirit guide you because they will never let you down your heart, your spirit, not the other persons, but listen to your heart within and go with that. And once you get that message, you can maybe find that what you want to do today for self-care is meditate. I do that. I can meditate for a few minutes or I can meditate for two hours. I’ve done both. I can go down that road and we’re not going to go there, but you know, meditate, Tai chi, Chiang Reiki. I can get lost doing massages. That can be, believe it or not, be my self care, giving a massage. And of course receiving a massage because that is also self care. But you’ve got to take care of yourself. If you don’t take care of yourself, no one else is going to.

Krystal Jakosky:    You are, you are echoing so many things that I already say and I absolutely love it. It’s like these gigantic exclamation points coming down saying hello. Hey guys, remember self care is the conscious and intentional act of taking care of your own needs. And it could change from day to day. It does not matter. What matters is that you are letting your heart and your spirit be your guide because they’re not going to be false to you.  

I mean it’s like bam boo. Yeah. Bring it on. Meditation, you know, meditation is the moment that you tune out the world and tune into yourself. You tune into the breathing, you tune into the moment and you let everything else go. 

Kevin Pennell:    I think one of the things you should do with part of the self care is change it up. Don’t try to do the same thing every day. Because if you do the same thing every day, it becomes a habit. And before you know it, a habit becomes a rut and you are only different, you know, do you know the only difference between the rut and a grave? Both ends are knocked out. That’s the only difference when a rut and a grave is where you haver both ends knocked out.  

Krystal Jakosky:   Wow. Okay guys, let’s stay out of the ruts. I have one more question for you Kevin. You’ve already given us a really good one. So who are you is a great journaling question. I love to leave all of my listeners with a journaling prompt or a question that they can think about and really answer. And who you are is amazing. Is there another one that you can think of that you would love to encourage people to explore?  

Kevin Pennell:    What have you done for self care for yourself today? 

Krystal Jakosky:    Okay. Just today.  

Kevin Pennell:    For the whole week?  

Krystal Jakosky:   It doesn’t have to be huge. It’s one little thing today. 

Kevin Pennell:    What have you done for yourself today? 

Krystal Jakosky:    I have, I have loved having you here. I have loved chit chatting with you. I really hope that everybody out there listening has enjoyed listening to us as well, and that you’ve been inspired and that you are leaving this session of this podcast uplifted and smiling. I am. I love Kevin. I love just the way that it’s so free and easy to talk with you. How do people find you and are there any last tidbits of wisdom or words of knowledge that you would like to share with people?  

Kevin Pennell:    So I would say first you can contact me through my website, which is toward better life.com. If you want to reach out to me, just write to me at kevin@tortaboutlife.com. I am available to do consultations and stuff like that from time to time. I haven’t mentioned that, but I do, I have done that and I will be more than happy to do it. so that’s the two easiest ways to do it. You know, if I go into phone numbers and stuff. When we get acquainted, you can have my phone number and we can text. That’s fine. Yeah.The easiest thing is toward better life.com and Kevin toward better life.com. And that’s an email and the website. That’s the easiest way to do this. And if you’re in the western North Carolina area and you’re looking for a massage, you can still do the same thing. I’ll just direct you to who to contact to get a massage. I think I would leave people just with those same simple words that if I can get them again in my head properly, and that is listen to your heart and spirit because they won’t let you down.  

Krystal Jakosky:    Amen. Oh, thank you so much for being here today. Thank you for sharing with me and starting my day off so beautifully. So Right. Thank you. 

Kevin Pennell:   Thank you. Pleasure’s all mine. We’ll do this again.  

I hope this moment of self care and healing brought you some hope and peace. I’m Krystal Jacosky on Instagram, Facebook, and YouTube. And I hope you check us out and follow along for more content coming soon. I look forward to being with you again here on Breathe in. Breathe out. Until next time, take care.  

way into it <laugh> and with, with a bachelor’s degree in biology, chemistry, and English literature, and having been teaching science for a while to junior high school. So, and at some point, after I’d had enough training, one of my teachers said to me, are you ready to take your exams? I think you are. And I went, huh exams. And so I got certified as a clinical transactional analyst before I even had a master’s degree in psychology, which I got some years later. <laugh>

Krystal Jakosky: Wow. And that all stemmed from this transformational moment with the I’m. Okay. You’re okay. We’re okay.  

Dr. Laurie Weiss: Yes.  

Krystal Jakosky: Experience. So you just followed a path that was kind of set before you and it just became one step upon another  

Dr. Laurie Weiss: One. That’s my whole life. It’s like I, I have, I intended to get a Ph.D., but that was sometime after I’d already been in the field. And I said, okay. And I had just written a book and I was busy with the book and I get this message in my head, you know, that it’s time to do the Ph.D. and I’m arguing with it. No, it’s not time yet. No, I’m busy. I’ve got too much going on. But that was when I was, um, I must have been about 50 then.

Krystal Jakosky: But you did go back and do the Ph.D.  

Dr. Laurie Weiss: I did the Ph.D. as an external program, a university in a mailbox. Basically, I had studied with every wonderful, amazing teacher that I could, that I encountered and I have such a list, you know, when people say, you know, I’ve studied, you know, I, I read so and so, oh yeah. I had a weekend with him. Yes. I spent a week with her. <laugh>, you know, I was in a year-long program with her. I did. And it was, you know, I just kept doing things. And so it finally came to what experience have you had for this external program? And I got credit for most of it. And then I completed the program.  

Krystal Jakosky: So in other words, arguing with that little voice in your head that says, yes, yes, didn’t do very much. And you ended up listening and it just became a gift anyway,  

Dr. Laurie Weiss: Mm-hmm, <affirmative> it was a tough five years, but yes, because it also encompassed menopause and my parents go through the ends of their lives at that, in that five-year period. So it, it was pretty intense,  

Krystal Jakosky: Honey. That is, those are huge transitions to be dealing with on top of working with a PhD  

Dr. Laurie Weiss: And a full-time practice.  

Krystal Jakosky: Wow. How inspirational are you  

Dr. Laurie Weiss: Or crazy  

Krystal Jakosky: <laugh> or driven or inspired or I don’t know what, but I know it’s absolutely beautiful. So you’re, you’re teaching in school and then through time at some time you’re gonna retire. Right.  

Dr. Laurie Weiss: I keep thinking, I might <laugh> when, when I, when I first found logo synthesis, I was on the retirement path. I, I was 70 years old and it seemed like, you know, I probably, you know, people are retiring now. I wonder what that’s like. And then I encountered this, this, this amazing thing. And it was like, I gotta learn more about that. And I kept learning. I, I, I am, I never know exactly what’s gonna happen. I follow what interests me. And that has been a wonderful, amazing life. I’ve gotten to do so many things that I’ve traveled all over the world. I’ve taught all over the world. Um, I’ve had these amazing friends. I’ve had these amazing experiences and hardly any of them was pre-planned. It was like, okay, that’s what’s next? Because I was interested because I wanted to know. And because what I know I teach, it’s just built-in.  

Krystal Jakosky: Yeah. It just helps expand the life and the life that we’re living as well as the lives of others because we’ve learned this and then we get to help other people grow and expand and improve their state of being because of the gift that we’ve been given. Good for you just saying yes. And yes, let’s do this and what’s next and what’s next. You’re a sponge.  

Dr. Laurie Weiss: That’s a good description. And sometimes I get over full and it’s hard to squeeze it out. That’s great.  

Krystal Jakosky: That’s when I go to journaling, I gotta, I gotta write it down, get it out. It’s like, wow, there’s so much in here. Or you write a book. How many books have you written?  

Dr. Laurie Weiss: 13. Or 13 published.

Krystal Jakosky: <laugh> how many does that mean are still in the works  

Dr. Laurie Weiss: Right now? The only one that’s in the works is something that I’m thinking about. And wondering whether writing the book is fun. It’s getting people to read it. That takes a lot of energy. It’s getting it out in the world, marketing it essentially. And I had to learn how to do that. It’s not my favorite thing, but I can. And you know, I keep thinking about, am I, am I going to do that or not? And I don’t know, we, uh, someday I’ll eat. I may wake up and it’s like, okay. And I’ll do it. Or I may not.  

Krystal Jakosky: I hear you. I hear you. Well, if it does come out, it’ll just be, I mean, lucky number 13, you could stick with 13. That’s a great place, to land. Right,  

Dr. Laurie Weiss: Right. To find out, I’ve got chapters in a bunch of other books too.  

Krystal Jakosky: Wow. That’s beautiful. You mentioned coming across. So you were getting ready to retire. You’re coming up on 70 ish and then you come across this thing called logo synthesis. Can you tell me about that experience? Can you tell me what piqued your interest in going from psychotherapy to this?  

Dr. Laurie Weiss: Yes. Um, the, the first thing that happens, I heard about it. I have these wild friends who are on the cutting edge of everything, and they told me about this and they were very dry and it didn’t make any sense to me at all. And I completely dismissed it. It was like that doesn’t count. And then we were having dinner with those same friends in Montreal, in a Mexican restaurant, because they were living in Canada and they didn’t get Mexican food. Very often. I live in Colorado and I have my fill, but okay. So we went and they promised it would be a nice quiet place. Well, I, I am one of those super-sensitive people, you know, my nerve ends are out there.  

Krystal Jakosky: Yeah.  

Dr. Laurie Weiss: And it started out quiet, but then the families came in and the kids started screaming and then the mariachis came and they started with the trumpets and the food came and they promised, I, I ordered something, you know, not spice, not spice because I can’t eat spice and they brought it and I couldn’t eat it. And so I tried again and they brought it and I couldn’t eat it. So all of this is going on, everybody else is eating and I’m sending food back and giving up. And, and I was stressed. That would be putting it mildly. It was like that, mm. Outta here. And so I thought, well, you know, I have got a lot of tools I left while they paid the bills. My husband was there and I thought, I’ll go out in the parking lot. I’ll calm down. So I did, you know, I, I did my deep breathing.  

Dr. Laurie Weiss: I did the tapping, which, you know, worked, and thought I was okay. And so my friend came out and he said, uh, are you okay? And I said, yeah, I’m fine. And he said, well, tell me what happened. And I said it in words. And then he said, well, show me. He said, and I said, it’s a certain point. My body went, oh. And he said, well, say these words with me. And I’d only known the man for 40 years. And he was a psychiatrist. I trust him. Sure. So I said the words, and I didn’t really understand what I was saying. And at the end of the time, I felt this deep, profound relaxation that, and it looked took, you know, less than 10 minutes, probably five minutes. And I felt this huge relaxation. And I was like, is that what you were talking about? Yeah, <laugh> okay. I have to learn. And so we, we had a very, very busy weekend, uh, fall that it was like in August. And we had almost every weekend scheduled. So they set up a workshop in Nova Scotia to coincide with the only weekend we had free. So we had to go,  

Krystal Jakosky: Thanks, friends.  

Dr. Laurie Weiss: <laugh> it’s good friends, you know, <laugh>. So we went and at that workshop, uh, something happened, I didn’t know what, but I was always exhausted by airplane travel. Just the noise, you know, the stimulation, the crowds, everything. Well, on the way home, I forgot to be tired.  

Krystal Jakosky: <laugh>  

Dr. Laurie Weiss: I didn’t find out until about three years later when I found some old notes that I had worked on a problem, not a problem. Just an image that came up from when I was about eight or nine years old on the subway in New York at rush hour, just like sine between a bunch of people. I’ve never been overwhelmed by noise since then. I have never, I’ve not been bothered by airplane travel since then. It was like, wow, I kept learning.  

Krystal Jakosky: Yeah. Yeah. So this embarked, this helped you embark another 12 years plus, cuz it’s still going career, helping people, clients you teach.  

Dr. Laurie Weiss: I did for a while now. I’ve pretty much put it in my books and people watch sessions with me after they read the books, I’ll do that. But <laugh>, uh, it, the process makes doing therapy so much quicker and easier too. So what used to take six months or so to do, I can do in a matter of weeks and what used to take, you know, a month or two sometimes in one session.  

Krystal Jakosky: Wow. Though, I don’t do,  

Dr. Laurie Weiss: I don’t do it very often, but you know, I, I still do a little bit  

Krystal Jakosky: And that’s all through Logosynthesis  

Dr. Laurie Weiss: It’s all, it’s all through using the tool on top of everything else I have. It’s not, it’s not isolated. I mean, I’ve got a whole bunch of things I use whatever is appropriate. But when people get to the place where they’re stuck, where they’re afraid to go into something, when something is just really tight.  

Krystal Jakosky: Yeah.  

Dr. Laurie Weiss: Using those words in that way will help loosen it and often make it disappear completely.  

Krystal Jakosky: Huh. So one of your statements earlier was that the reason for distress is often very different than what you think it is.  

Dr. Laurie Weiss: Mm-hmm <affirmative> but give you another example. Uh, one time I was in some kind of encounter with some, some man who was very nasty to me without reason mm-hmm <affirmative> and I didn’t feel like I responded very well. So I was going over and over and over what I could have said what I should have said, you know what I might have said? And you know, maybe if I ever encountered him again, I could say  

Dr. Laurie Weiss: Right spinning basically. Yeah. And by that time I was doing Logosynthesis pretty frequently. And the interesting thing is I often go over stuff when I am getting ready for bed. I mean, lots of us do  

Krystal Jakosky: Mm-hmm  

Dr. Laurie Weiss: <affirmative> so I’m brushing my teeth and thinking about this and oh, alright. So I say, all right, let’s say the sentences. So I say the sentences about that and all of a sudden I get a picture and a memory that were at least 60 years old, something I had not thought about forever. Yeah. And it was of being bullied when I was 10 years old, it was like, I even remembered the girl’s name. This was in fifth grade. <laugh>  

Krystal Jakosky: Yeah. Not harsh.  

Dr. Laurie Weiss: I remember your name. And I did, you know, the memory of being bullied, which is I did that. The issue with the man completely went out of my head. I relaxed, and I went to bed. It was like that upset with him could be traced somehow my mind took it right back to where it started.  

Krystal Jakosky: Yeah. It’s a lot of it’s it sounds like a lot of just inner child and works healing stuff that happened so far back that we don’t, we don’t recognize that we kind of makes these patterns. We, have them throughout our lives and they start when we’re very young and they really affect how we move forward. Yeah. Until we do something like this, where we take a pause and we look at the why behind what’s really going on, and it’s not just that it’s a loud noise or that somebody spoke mean to us. It’s literally that something happened a while ago that is affecting us at this moment. And going back to that moment and breathing and acknowledging it in some way can heal that, which then actually heals us throughout and up to this moment so that we can move forward. Easier. I love that.  

Krystal Jakosky: I, I, this is something that I talk about a lot too, that, that we need to look further back, not just in this specific moment, like when we’re having a, a difficult conversation with a loved one, and we’re really frustrated with what’s being said, and what’s going on. It’s not normally that other person that you’re angry at. You’re typically upset with something that happened before that is triggering these emotions that are coming forward now that you have to deal with and face and work with. And if you have that ability to do that, whether however, that is whatever works for us, each individual person, then it’s like this huge gift that we have to find more compassion, love, and peace for ourselves. And then we’re just kinder to ourselves and everyone around us. So it blows me away that you’re about to retire at 70 years old. And then you’re like, okay, I’ll do another, I don’t know. Maybe you’ll go for another 20 years. <laugh>  

Dr. Laurie Weiss: I didn’t think about that. I just thought about I’ll go to this workshop. <laugh> and then, oh, that was fun. I’ll go to the next one.  

Krystal Jakosky: <laugh> if you had known that this is where you would go in your life, what would you tell the younger you back then?  

Dr. Laurie Weiss: Not worry so much about where I’m going.  

Krystal Jakosky: Yeah.  

Dr. Laurie Weiss: I actually, I never did worry too much about where I was going. I was having too much fun along the way. <laugh> it’s more like quit listening to all those people who say you should have goals.  

Krystal Jakosky: Oh,  

Dr. Laurie Weiss: I think it would be more like that. And actually what I learned somewhere along my meanderings was that if you focus on one kind of thing, certain kinds of things can happen. If you focus on something else, other kinds of things can happen.  

Krystal Jakosky: Yeah.

Dr. Laurie Weiss: And people can be very successful if they’re of a mind to focus on goals and get there. And it’s not like I didn’t have goals, like finishing the book and getting the Ph.D. I mean, those are goals, but yeah. Uh, purpose, I think is more important. We need to know what we’re here for. That can take a lot of development. It doesn’t, you don’t always know. I mean, some people know, you know, I’m here to be a healer. I know that. I didn’t know that, but as I worked and when you talked about inner child work, um, I wrote the book on developmentally based psychotherapy with my husband, which John Bradshaw, who is the guru of inner child work referred to as the, and, and did the introduction to, oh, this, this is the book to read about. This is, is the only place where it’s done in this way. I got very clear that damage is done to children. Not because their parents are cruel or mean or anything or, or mean harm. They mean to help them 95% of the time, at least they mean help. Yeah. They, do the best they can.  

Dr. Laurie Weiss: And because of the damage that they have endured in some way, visited onto the children onto the seventh generation, whatever, uh, they do this damage, we pass on only what we know. And so it became my purpose to interfere with that cycle so that people could pass on things that heal. They can heal and pass on the good things to their children. They can be calm instead of reactive.  

Krystal Jakosky: Mm I, I, I just love that you’ve told us about Logosynthesis and a little bit about how you say it’s a simple procedure and that it’s words, are there guidelines for, for Logosynthesis? Are there like,  

Dr. Laurie Weiss: Yes, <laugh>,  

Krystal Jakosky: <laugh>  

Dr. Laurie Weiss: There, there’s a very specific set of words. Um, this was developed in Switzerland by Dr. Willem Lamers, who is a psychotherapist with infinite experience and all kinds of training and all kind and, and a meditator and a boot, you know, studied everything and looking for a simpler way. This was something that came to him more or less spontaneously. And he was so surprised by the results. He kept developing it. There are a lot of people in Europe using it now, um, spreading, but it’s spreading slowly. It was pretty new when I encountered it.  

Krystal Jakosky: Okay.  

Dr. Laurie Weiss: Also, um, being a Swiss Dutch psychologist, and academic, he wrote in a way that was not easy to consume  

Krystal Jakosky: Bedtime reading <laugh>  

Dr. Laurie Weiss: It was something like that.  

Krystal Jakosky: <laugh>.  

Dr. Laurie Weiss: And so the process is the basic process is simple. That’s like the first layer, there’s a whole lot of information that you can go deeper with, but the basic process is extremely simple. And I said, you know, I write to take complicated stuff and make it accessible to anybody. That’s what I do. That’s what I’ve always done. And finally, he said, would you write the book? And so I did, I just wrote this little book, letting it go relieve anxiety and toxic stress in just a few minutes using only words, wow, this is the revised copy. The original copy was published in 2016 and I just revised it <laugh> and, um, he loved it and he, he promoted, it, gave it away, said, start with this, then read my books, made it. <laugh> made a lot of sense. He’s been writing a lot of more, more accessible books since then, but at that time he had not yet done that.  

Krystal Jakosky: So, so you, so you took this, these words and this concept cuz he was teaching it. Yeah. But it was so big and just so wordy and so kind of difficult to really digest and take in and made it so much more approachable and simple and relatable for people to be able to really honestly take it inside and, and use the tools that are presented in there.  

Dr. Laurie Weiss: Right. It’s not mysterious and, you don’t have to have a huge amount of background in order to use it. And so he was giving people all the background, which is wonderful. If you’re professional and wanna see how it fits in and like that, I, I don’t wanna put that down at all. I mean, no, but, uh, it isn’t easy for somebody to just pick it up and get it and I, they don’t need all that. They just need to know how to use it. And so that’s what I really about. You can use it. I think here’s, here’s basically what to do and why.  

Krystal Jakosky: Yeah. I love to learn. I’m more of a, I wanna learn it now. And then after I’ve learned it now, then I can say, all right, now I wanna know why we do that. Now I wanna know the energy behind that or the purpose behind that. So to have both of those, you can say, okay, now that I’ve got the nuts and bolts, now that I’ve got the ball, I wanna see how it bounces or why it bounces or what it, what it does from here. So I think it’s really cool that you were able to help him balance that out and bring it to more people, making it easier.  

Dr. Laurie Weiss: Yeah. A lot of professionals read it. Sync yeah. Thing. This is, you know, this won’t pan and they, oh, it does work. Okay. Let me learn more.  

Krystal Jakosky: Yeah. Just, just like you with your friend. Okay. You make no sense right now, but that’s okay. <laugh>  

Dr. Laurie Weiss: Yeah.  

Krystal Jakosky: So would you like to, can we do a little demonstration?  

Dr. Laurie Weiss: Sure, sure. It’s just repeating three sentences.  

Krystal Jakosky: Okay.  

Dr. Laurie Weiss: And pausing in between to notice what’s going on because you may or may not react to the sentences. You may or may not respond to them. Some people go, but nothing happened. I’m kinda like that. And other people have a huge physical reaction and start going like that.  

Krystal Jakosky: Wow.  

Dr. Laurie Weiss: So one never knows. And also you can’t control it.  

Krystal Jakosky: No,  

Dr. Laurie Weiss: I’m not trying to do something with it. I’m trying to help you access your own resources.  

Krystal Jakosky: And I love that statement right there. Access my own resources. Love it.  

Dr. Laurie Weiss: <laugh> yeah, because you, you have a connection yeah. To your higher self or to God or, or to the universe or to whatever it is that we all have different names for, but that infinite energy.  

Krystal Jakosky: Yeah.  

Dr. Laurie Weiss: And it’s that infinite energy. That essence tells us what to do.  

Krystal Jakosky: Amen. <laugh> I agree. Yeah.  

Dr. Laurie Weiss: Yeah. I’ll be using the word. I  

Krystal Jakosky: Okay.  

Dr. Laurie Weiss: And I refer to the part of you that’s connected to that infinite essence. Okay. It’s not the part of you that is making things happen. This is not about making things happen. It’s about letting things happen.  

Krystal Jakosky: So it’s my spiritual eye. Not my physical or mental eye.  

Dr. Laurie Weiss: Yeah.  

Krystal Jakosky: Cool.  

Dr. Laurie Weiss: The eye that is we and the name of somebody else. Some other authors.  

Krystal Jakosky: Yeah. It’s the Royal “I.”  

Dr. Laurie Weiss: So it helps me to know, you said that you were stressed <laugh> can you just tell me a little bit about that? You don’t have to say. Um,  

Krystal Jakosky: Yeah. So, uh, well my husband, my mom lives here on the property and she’s been laid up and my husband’s been laid up and we’ve had people visiting and, uh, that I’ve got work as well. So I’ve just got a lot of things that are just kind of piled on top of me and I’m doing really well. And yet, you know, <laugh>, there’s a lot of stress that goes on with that as well.  

Dr. Laurie Weiss: All right. I, I got the image from what you said <laugh> you said all of these piled on top of me.  

Krystal Jakosky: Yeah.  

Dr. Laurie Weiss: So you’ve got a whole lot of energy tied up in what’s piled on top of you, right?  

Krystal Jakosky: Yeah.  

Dr. Laurie Weiss: Okay. So we’ll be working with the energy. Okay. Okay.  

Krystal Jakosky: Mm-hmm  

Dr. Laurie Weiss: <affirmative> so just remember when I say relax, breathe. I, I won’t take a long time now because, um, we’re on the air. Yeah. If I were doing it in my office or something, I might take a lot longer. Okay. Yeah. All right. So just say these words after me.  

Krystal Jakosky: Okay.  

Dr. Laurie Weiss: I retrieve all of my own energy and say that  

Krystal Jakosky: I retrieve all of my own energy  

Dr. Laurie Weiss: Bound up in this pile of things  

Krystal Jakosky: Bound up in this pile of things.  

Dr. Laurie Weiss: And I take my energy  

Krystal Jakosky: And I take my energy  

Dr. Laurie Weiss: To the right place in myself  

Krystal Jakosky: To the right place in myself.  

Dr. Laurie Weiss: Okay. Now just breathe. Just notice what’s happening  

Krystal Jakosky: First off. I just wanna giggle and laugh. I just feel so good.  

Dr. Laurie Weiss: Okay.  

Krystal Jakosky: And my heart feels just really warm, so that’s really cool.  

Dr. Laurie Weiss: Wonderful. Okay. Keep letting the energy move. Notice, whatever happens.  

Krystal Jakosky: My hands just started to sweat <laugh>  

Dr. Laurie Weiss: Okay.  

Krystal Jakosky: And there’s a knot in the middle of my back.  

Dr. Laurie Weiss: Keep breathing and noticing what happens,  

Krystal Jakosky: You know, immediately when you had me say the first one, I pull my energy back into me.  

Dr. Laurie Weiss: Okay.  

Krystal Jakosky: I could feel it automatically returning. It was the sensation of like my chest being filled back up instead of hollow.  

Dr. Laurie Weiss: I’m gonna give you the next sentence now.  

Krystal Jakosky: Okay.  

Dr. Laurie Weiss: I remove all of the non-me energy.  

Krystal Jakosky: I remove all of the non-me energy  

Dr. Laurie Weiss: Involved in this pile of stuff  

Krystal Jakosky: Involved in this pile of stuff.  

Dr. Laurie Weiss: I remove that energy.  

Krystal Jakosky: I remove that energy  

Dr. Laurie Weiss: From all of my cells,  

Krystal Jakosky: From all of my cells,  

Dr. Laurie Weiss: From all of my body,  

Krystal Jakosky: From all of my body  

Dr. Laurie Weiss: And from my personal space  

Krystal Jakosky: And from my personal space.  

Dr. Laurie Weiss: And I send it to wherever it truly belongs  

Krystal Jakosky: And I send it to wherever it truly belongs.  

Dr. Laurie Weiss: Okay. Now read again. and Just notice what happens.  

Krystal Jakosky: The first thing I noticed was that at the end of that, my throat wanted to close up,  

Dr. Laurie Weiss: Keep breathing  

Krystal Jakosky: And now it’s loose again.  

Dr. Laurie Weiss: Okay.  

Krystal Jakosky: Yeah.  

Dr. Laurie Weiss: All right. Next sentence. I retrieve all of my energy.  

Krystal Jakosky: I retrieve all of my energy  

Dr. Laurie Weiss: Bound up in all of my reactions.  

Krystal Jakosky: Hmm. Bound up in all of my reactions  

Dr. Laurie Weiss: To this pile of stuff,  

Krystal Jakosky: To this pile of stuff.  

Dr. Laurie Weiss: And I take my energy  

Krystal Jakosky: And I take my energy  

Dr. Laurie Weiss: To the right place in myself  

Krystal Jakosky: To the right place in myself.  

Dr. Laurie Weiss: Just keep breathing, just notice what happens.  

Krystal Jakosky: My heart just kind of settled, like for, I don’t know how to explain it other than it. It was almost like it was bound up tight and held up high and now it just kind of relaxed and settled into where it belongs so that it can just rest and I’m not wearing my shoulders as earrings.  

Dr. Laurie Weiss: Okay. So it sounds like you’re somewhat less stressed.  

Krystal Jakosky: Yeah. You know what? I’m sitting taller. I have been slouching lately from that weight. Just kind of mm-hmm <affirmative> you know, and uh, I feel it’s easier to sit taller right now. It’s, it’s more comfortable to sit taller than that slouched. I gotta get through the next little while. Okay. Wow. That’s really cool.  

Dr. Laurie Weiss: Isn’t it? It’s just it’s so easy to do. And normally I wouldn’t have somebody talking to me while they’re doing it in this case. It made sense. I was wishing that all the people who are only listening could also see all yeah. What was happening with your face because you kept changing <laugh>  

Krystal Jakosky: When, uh, for those just listening to the podcast instead of, uh, watching, which you can absolutely watch on the YouTube channel. Um, I do have a lot of facial expressions. Um, and yet these, these moments, you can really feel everything settle. You can really feel everything, let go and breathe and expand. And it’s really pretty amazing. Just the way that you can settle back into yourself is the way I’m gonna put it. Yeah.  

Dr. Laurie Weiss: Mm. So it, that’s like the sample version there’s that you can do so much with it.  

Krystal Jakosky: Wow. So your book letting it go mm-hmm, <affirmative> walks you through all of this stuff and teaches you  

Dr. Laurie Weiss: Yeah.  

Krystal Jakosky: How to work with it.  

Dr. Laurie Weiss: Yeah. It covers some of the stories that I’ve told you because those were so important to me. Yeah. And it helps you figure out where you are, where your energy is stuck, because, you know, usually we talk about the story. Yeah. You know, it’s all about the story. It’s all about what happened. Um, and, it is, I, I learned to listen to stories for my whole career as a psychotherapist.  

Krystal Jakosky: Yeah.  

Dr. Laurie Weiss: And, and I love to listen to stories. So I have to train myself that there’s another level and the level I’m listening, for now, feeling whatever, trying to tune into yeah. Is the energy level and that’s as real as the story level.  

Krystal Jakosky: Yeah.  

Dr. Laurie Weiss: And when we encounter something, we can’t manage, whether it’s something tiny when we’re a little kid or whether it’s something huge, like a trauma as an adult.  

Krystal Jakosky: Yeah.  

Dr. Laurie Weiss: Uh, we tend to freeze the energy. We, we get it stuck. And every time we freeze energy, it’s like a physical thing that’s between us and our source between us and our essence. And so when you’ve got a lot of those stuck energy things, mm-hmm <affirmative>, and, and you can’t help it. I mean, we just do it. It’s a way its self-protective mechanism that we are born with. It’s great. We need it. And we don’t need to keep it. It’s like, yeah. It’s like something that happened to you when you were even 21.  

Krystal Jakosky: Yeah.  

Dr. Laurie Weiss: When you’re 40, you’ve got a huge amount, more resources you survive that, you know how to deal with it. You don’t have to carry around that stuck place. That, that bound up energy. So when you take your energy back and I don’t know how it’s done it just, you know, part of that, that part of you knows how to do it. You just give it, the words are the clue that says, take your energy back. Yeah. Oh, okay.  

Krystal Jakosky: Yeah. It’s reminding us to be present in ourselves and acknowledge where we’re at. And, and, um, one of the questions I often ask myself, I’m an emotional, intuitive, so I can feel other people’s emotions. And, uh, I often stop my, yeah. I often stop myself and ask, is this mine? Or is this someone else’s? And I, you instinctively know, well, that’s not mine. Okay. Well, if it’s not mine, I talk to my higher power and say, well, you please remove this from me. And it is not mine. I do not need to carry it. And as soon as I acknowledge that, as soon as I bring that forward, it just is released mm-hmm  

Dr. Laurie Weiss: <affirmative>  

Krystal Jakosky: And it’s that awareness and that intention and that being present in the moment.  

Dr. Laurie Weiss: Mm-hmm, <affirmative>  

Krystal Jakosky: The beautiful thing I love about this photosynthesis is that you don’t have to be in a state of crisis to do this. Um, you know, a lot of us have to hit rock bottom so that we can find something new to help us out. And this is so simple, so gentle, so light, and approachable that anybody can pick it up at any stage. And even if you have a tiny little thing that you wanna shift, that you’re frustrated with, you can shift it. So thank you for being on my show and sharing that. Is there another book like you, we’ve gone over, um, letting you go, is there another book that you’re absolutely thrilled with and really wanna share with us?  

Dr. Laurie Weiss: Well, my, I have two series.  

Krystal Jakosky: Okay.  

Dr. Laurie Weiss: This is the series. Yeah. And this one, you know, we’ve got so many money worries.  

Krystal Jakosky: Mm-hmm, <affirmative>,  

Dr. Laurie Weiss: You know, particularly now, you know, with, with the inflation, you know, you go to the store and pretty soon you’re seeing yourself, you know, with a, a shopping cart under a bridge.  

Krystal Jakosky: Yeah.  

Dr. Laurie Weiss: And those images that, that you carry, even though they’re in the future, even though they’re never gonna happen, their fantasies will SAP your energy from doing what you know how to do.  

Krystal Jakosky: So this other book she’s sharing with us is called embrace posterity by resolving blocks, to experiencing abundance. And it’s all about just opening up the possibility and the beauty that you, you can receive abundance and you can live in abundance. You don’t have to be in lack.  

Dr. Laurie Weiss: Right. I wrote this one with Dr. Lamers. We were both interested in working with, um, money. I had been for a long, long time working with people about money, learning about it myself. And he was too. And when I said I wanted to learn what he was doing, he said, okay. And then you can write a book about it. <laugh> so, you know, we, we can do it together, which meant I could write it. And he could add a little bit.  

Krystal Jakosky: Yeah.  

Dr. Laurie Weiss: One of the things in here I just love is one of his exercises in which you think about a goal, something that you really want  

Krystal Jakosky: Mm-hmm <affirmative>  

Dr. Laurie Weiss: And you know, that there are all kinds of blocks in the way. And there’s a process for identifying each block along the way, the physical process, and then doing logo synthesis, doing the logo, the simple process about it. So that’s how Logosynthesis can get to so many more things.  

Krystal Jakosky: Layers. Yeah. Absolutely layers, simplicity, and layers. Yeah. That I love it. They really go hand in hand. Thank you.  

Dr. Laurie Weiss: Yeah. Then, the other book that I’m thinking about, you know, maybe I’m gonna write is letting go of stuff. <laugh> things, because I’m, at a point of, I don’t need all the things I had. I’ve got bookcases full of books. I’m never gonna read it again. I’ve got, you know, and yet I wanna hold on, but if I let it if I do the words withholding the the object  

Krystal Jakosky: Mm-hmm <affirmative>,  

Dr. Laurie Weiss: I can let it go. And yeah, I’ve done this with, with other people who are interested. And one woman had this collection of toys she had had since childhood and she was downsizing and she couldn’t figure out what to do with them. She didn’t wanna, you know, just give them, she didn’t wanna let them go. Anyhow, we did the process and they wound up in a museum, long story short.  

Krystal Jakosky: Oh, wow.  

Dr. Laurie Weiss: She contacted her hometown museum and I have this and this, would you like? Yes, she was so happy.  

Krystal Jakosky: That’s a beautiful way to honor herself in the experience that she had with them and also pay it forward and allow it to be something that other people can see and remember, and acknowledge. And, um, that’s a beautiful way to honor both sides of it. So mm-hmm <affirmative> yeah, yeah. Getting rid of stuff and downsizing, you know, especially as we age and we don’t need as much stuff. And we’re like, you know, for me, I, my mom lives on my property and thinking of going through all of that stuff, when she eventually, um, moves on to the next life, it’s like, yeah, how do I honor her and her experience in that same vein? So if I can get rid of stuff personally, then I’ll do that too. Laurie, is there any additional note, any additional little gem that you would like to share with our audience today?  

Dr. Laurie Weiss: Well, I have something on my website that they could go retrieve themselves, which is called, um, worry less starting now. I think that’s what it’s called anyway, right on it’s right on the first page.  

Krystal Jakosky: Okay.  

Dr. Laurie Weiss: And it helps you refine how to use the sentences. Okay. It, it gives you something and you don’t need the sentences and they come at the end and they tell you, go get the book because that really teaches you how to use them, but it gives you the sentences written down as well. And it takes about 10 minutes a day for a week.  

Krystal Jakosky: Okay. So that’s on Laurie weiss.com. That’s  

Dr. Laurie Weiss: Right.  

Krystal Jakosky: Great. And we will have that also in, um, our notes on the podcast and on the YouTube video so that people can go to that and find you and connect with your books and all of like the logo synthesis and breaking blocks to abundance.  

Dr. Laurie Weiss: Right? If, if they want relationship books, I wrote seven of those.  

Krystal Jakosky: Love how simple it is. I love how easy it is and how gentle it is. I keep one of my things, one of my goals for this year with the podcast is just opening up new possibilities, new ways that people can do self-care and dive a little bit deeper. And what works for one doesn’t work for another. What is really exciting to one person may not be, is another person’s cup of tea. And yet exposing them to all of these opportunities has become a fun little passion for me. And I love that you came on, I love your wealth of knowledge and experience. I love the life that you’ve lived in saying yes, and yes. And I’m gonna retire. Nevermind. Yes. And what more can I do? And how can I just keep learning and growing? You’re an inspiration to us to just keep being vital and keep learning and moving and growing and live the best most joyful life you possibly can. So I thank you for being on, I thank you for opening my mind and every one of the listeners’ minds, and you’re just a gem.  

Dr. Laurie Weiss: Thank you. It has been a delight to be with you and you are providing such a wonderful service for people just having, having this available to them. Uh, just makes me happy knowing that younger, younger people are out there doing it. Yeah. So thank you so much too. It’s wonderful.  

Krystal Jakosky: Thank you. Have a wonderful day, Laurie, and to all of my listeners, check her out and then come back here next week for Breathe In, Breathe Out.

I hope this moment of self-care and healing brought you some hope and peace. I’m Krystal Jakosky on Instagram, Facebook, and YouTube. And I hope you check us out and follow along for more content coming soon. I look forward to being with you again, here on Breathe In, Breathe Out. Until next time, take care.